I'm not sure how to describe the above pic, which I have seen in any number of places about the net, usually surrounded by smarmy, fauxphisticated, historically-ignorant atheists. It's actually part of a larger pic which includes similar frames for Dionysus, Mithra, and Horus, and finishes with a pic of Y U No Guy asking Christians why they can't be original. I have to ask instead why atheists can't be accurate.
Jesus, of course, is a well-known figure, so well-known that lots of people actually think he was born on December 25th. While the date is traditional, it's neither accurate nor inaccurate - the Bible simply does not say when he was born*. But we'll take the rest as read: Jesus was born of a virgin, had a star in the East, had 12 disciples, performed miracles. He was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures.
But what of Krishna? If what this graphic says is true, it might be an example of what CS Lewis called "good dreams" that God sent humanity to point to the Savior. It could be a counterfeit sent by Satan to confuse, like dinosaur bones buried in the crust of ancient literature. It could be damning proof that Christianity was simply a mystery religion that stole its doctrines from other mystery religions, like Mormonism stole its temple rites from Freemasonry. It could be something else altogether. That's what we're here to find out, kids.
So, did Krishna also rise again in fulfillment of the scriptures? Not so much. This might sound odd, but this list of Krishna facts don't look much like Krishna at all. According to the Devi Bhagavatam (4/1), Krishna was born as the sixth son of an imprisoned couple, and his father was a prince** rather than a carpenter. And if mom has had six kids, the Virgin argument would be harder to pull off than this one, I suspect. According to the hyper-accurate Wikipedia***, Krishna was born July 18, 3228bc rather than Christmas, 900bc. He was not crucified, but killed by a hunter's arrow while he was meditating in a forest. He was not resurrected, but rather his soul ascended to Heaven while his body was cremated by Ajuna, a warrior hero friend who found it. He performed the miracle of lifting Govardhana Hill and holding it over the heads of a bunch of villagers to protect them from rain****. And just like Jesus, he had 16,108 wives.
The scholarship, such as it is, seems to be a summary of The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, a nineteenth century study so laughably inept that even the folks at Infidels.org had the good taste to disclaim it. But it does make you wonder why this sort of demonstrably false drivel swirls around the toilet bowl of human consciousness that is the internet, yet never goes down. Could it be that some people simply pass it on as fact because they want it to be true?
Nah, that would be irrational. And if there's one thing we know about people who so desperately want Christianity to be false, it's that they are rational.
* If my birthday was in December, I'd move his to July 18 to avoid those disappointing "combination" birthday/Christmas presents.
** He was "the pious and illustrious Vasudeva... the incarnation of the God Hari Himself," and married to the sister of King Herod.
*** Which is at least easier to read than the Devi Bhagavatam, I'll give it that.
**** Mark 11:23, FTW.
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I wrote that "16 Saviors" book myself - you know, to sow confusion amongst the Western Hindu New Agers, and to set them up to be truly discredited by a noble, sublime mind such as the ones we have here.
It's fun to play "enemy within", you know..you get to see what Intel and gubmint work feels like.
they want to believe its true
I am always fascinated that they are in actuality very keen on accepting a "religion", just not the One that describes all of us, and our objective existence, BEST...Maybe they're not big on objectivity, I don't know. Or maybe they are perpetual children.
And drinking from the toilet bowl daily myself, I can assure you that there is a great deal of stuff out there. It is very telling to me that most people do indeed want to Believe something..and, of course, everyone does. So then the only question remaining is: What are the results/product??
Good to have you back, El B.
It's a perfect example of what Jesus was referring to when he said, Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine.
While there's little chance that an internet troll will rend you, you're wasting your time dealing with people who simply do not want to know the truth. Sometimes it's fun to nuke them anyway, but the epic artistry of such pwnage is seldom appreciated by the crowd.
neither cast ye your pearls before swine
Understood. But my problem is that the swine effect our lives negatively. They tread upon us.
As for the pwnage being appreciated, it is the highest form of entertainment, even for the few who might recognize it.
But I somehow believe also that it HAS to be important. No telling what type of ground your seeds are falling on or what it may/not produce, but one thing is likely/possible - shining that Light may very well be the only time they hear it. I believe you are attempting to help them and are showing true love.
Oh, and there is nothing more NuclearAwesome than watching the Truth skewer assholes..because deep down inside?...they know.
Somehow, the Truth is its own witness.
I don't disagree, in fact, I spent a good portion of last weekend nuking one historical illiterate in the comments section of a local paper. He was making the claim that there should be Roman Civil records for Jesus since there are for everyone else. I challenged him to provide us with Pilate's birthday, at which point (this was round 10, after he had already ignored multiple requests that he back up his bs with actual data) he pulled the Voxian "Silence that Gun" rather than admit he had no idea how many records of the period exist. My last reply was this:
OK, since it looks like we won't get an answer, I'll leave it for posterity. The only public record of the existence of Pontius Pilate was not found until 1961, in the form of the Pilate Stone, in which his name was carved into limestone as part of a building dedication in Ceasarea. That's it. There are no birth records, death records, public records of any kind for the governor of the province. And we're supposed to worry that the same records do not exist for an itinerant country preacher, and a non-citizen, from that province?
Pilate is mentioned in about 4 places in all of ancient literature. The gospels/NT, Josephus, Philo (a Jewish philosopher livingin Alexandria, Egypt), and the above Tacitus mention. That's it. And yet there is not a single historian of the period who will deny the existence of Pilate.
The operative problem is the statement "And there are lots of records from that time period." There aren't. There is almost nothing from that period. Every piece of literature we have from the first century could fit on a bookshelf about 2 feet wide. Proving the existence of anyone using ebyrdstarr's approach would be nearly impossible. That's why historians don't work that way.
I don't know if anyone else appreciated or learned something from it - no one argued the point - but there it sits for posterity.
And we're supposed to worry that the same records do not exist for an itinerant country preacher, and a non-citizen, from that province?
could fit on a bookshelf about 2 feet wide
Ouch. That had to leave an ego mark. It has been sown, the result is none of our business and out of your control. You bore witness (that was a whole lotta "power,love and sound mind) and now it bears winess for Itself.
Link to the back and forth??
Also, I'm assuming this RedMeat thing will just be a back and forth on ideas and thoughts right here in the comments section? Sorta like an ongoing conversation for anyone wishing to jump in..or skip..or ignore..or whatever?
BW, here ya go. On occasion you'll have to "skip forward," as the LJWorld setup is rather wacky, and I like to start new conversations at the root.
It should not take you long to figure out which guy is El B in disguise in disguise in disguise...
As for the Horus thing:
This blog http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/
is kind of "unique" in that it seems every third word of ever post is "Horite" but at the same time the author is convinced of the truth of Traditional Christianity (Eastern Orthodox-flavored). She at least trashes on Episcopalians/Anglicans, so that's a good sign.
In short: Much in common with Justin Martyr's "spermatikologos" approach.
Interesting topic, which has long been a source of Google glory for me. Do a google search for "When was Krishna born" to see my take on the subject.
It is odd that people seem so eager to claim that Jesus never existed, when he is the single most historically-embedded religious figure of any world religion. Reading Hindu and Buddhist scriptures is like reading bad science fiction. It is quite a shock to the average Westerner, who has become unconsciously conditioned to expect realism in their religion.
This isn't a coven of "commenter" singles, is it?
Screw the "what should a home look like". The NT speaks very little to it. If indivuals have some metric bigger than themselves in view (Christianity specifically in this case), then everything else falls quite naturally into place.
Psychology would be a more productive topic than WWJD??
It's Genesis 6 time.
Let's find out exactly why all those OT folks needed to be wiped out.
Of course, your aforementioned suggestion, Jesus-as-General-in-Chief is always relevant in the perpetual-war-for-perpetual-peace propaganda known as "foreign policy" or "national (in)security".
And the BeatDown in the online Kansas NewsPaper comments section was ... well, a BeatDown.
Do you win if you quit??
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